Hungry2Live
Hungry2Live
H2L E. 14, From Mommy Wine Culture to Normalizing Sobriety- with Michelle Smith
On today’s episode Rachel speaks with Michelle Smith. Michelle talks, Mommy Wine Culture, waking up in a hospital (multiple times) and normalizing sobriety. Drinking wine in a coffee tumbler was once commonplace for Michelle. Now, a woman who wants to be present and in the presence of all her loves in life, Michelle is a TEDX speaker, author and educator. Michelle Smith is the founder of Recovery is the New Black.
@recoveryisthenewblack
Recoveryisthenewblack.com
No, I
Speaker 2:Don't care,
Speaker 1:But they say I came here to stay
Speaker 2:Through the days. The mercy is wasn't lazy kid. He never gave up. Cuz I got God, God, The darkness turn the lights
Speaker 3:To another episode of hungry to live. I'm Rachel, as you all know, I tell my story through the lens of recovery recovery of an eating disorder. However, there are so many other ways to live your life through the lens of recovery. Today, I am talking with Michelle Smith. She is the founder and creator of recovery is the new black. Hi Michelle.
Speaker 4:Hello. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:Thank you for being here. So it was so interesting when I was doing some research and looking up, uh, potential guests and I came across your Instagram and I was like, recovery is the new black, what is this? Like? It, it reminded me of, um, orange is the new black. And then, and then I started getting into more research about you and you used to work in the penitentiary system. And I was like, this is so cool. Cause I used to actually work in juvenile hall<laugh> and I totally could see this correlation between wanting to have some sort of a, an escape from this crazy systemic issue that is all around us, that not everyone sees on the inside. And I just, I was just taken by your story and taken by this whole idea of being a mother and, and just trying to cope. And then your drinking habits kind of got out of hand, but not until you had this moment where you woke up, as you did every morning, mostly to your husband telling you or asking you, can we talk, but that one particular moment in particular, when you woke up in the hospital. So now that I just brought the listeners up to speed<laugh> I would like you to share your story.
Speaker 4:Yes, I would love to. So, you know, my story of alcohol use misuse really started after I started having kids. I grew up in a very, what I would think normal household of where, you know, no violence, no abuse, none of the, you know, things that I would consider to be out of the ordinary. And so, you know, I did have alcoholism running in my family. So I always said that I had the perfect excuse to like, not mimic that behavior or the perfect thing not to do. Right. So it was like, I had this example of what it will do if I choose to ingest it. So I'm gonna stay away from it because I know that it doesn't lead to anywhere. Good. So I ended up getting married to my high school sweetheart, and we had our first baby and I was literally greeted to the hospital with eight bottles of wine as gifts. And I was just astonished. Like, I, I didn't even know what to say and besides thank you. And I took it, put it in my to go bag my overnight bag and it just sat there for months. And the message that I was given was that motherhood is really hard and alcohol helps. And I understood what they said, but I didn't really understand what they said until I started feeling exhausted, depleted, depressed, overwhelmed all of the natural emotions that we feel, but they all flooded in at one time during such an emotional season in my life. Not only was I having another kid by then, but my mother passed away and my husband was deployed to war. I had a stroke, there was so many things that were adding up and to my vulnerability, which I always look back and think it was very much a predisposition that I poked the bear. I never really tried, quote unquote, tried drinking or really getting into it. But I did then. And I, I feel like I didn't only like pick up where I left off cause I hadn't really started, but it was like this beast that was awakened in me. That was like, I love this. I want more of this. And the more I was feeling disconnected, longing for connection lonely instead of really going to my treatment providers or talking to family, I just started connecting with other moms because that's what you do when you have young kids is you connect at the playground and at yoga and walk the mall. And there was this common thread of, we all just drink in the morning we wear the t-shirts. We have, you know, our soccer mugs that look like coffee. And it was very hesitant, very overwhelmed and honestly disturbed by this. And it just kept being a thing. And eventually I said, yes, I want some of that. I wanna feel better. Right? Because that's the message that at least I get is that drinking does help temporarily. The problem for me was, is that I started using it more and more and more. And a lot of my self soothing techniques and coping tools went out the window because I was just replacing it with this one thing that really just helped me shut down without having to try. And so over the years it just became extremely problematic. And my denial grew, my shame grew, which just perpetuated the cycle of being secretive, which landed me in the hospital. Not once, but four times before I said, Michelle, this is ridiculous. You are slowly destroying yourself and eliminating yourself from your life. You know what it's like to not have parents. And your two children are gonna be faced with the same situation for your selfish behavior. If you don't get this together, but when you're really sick and you have made so many mistakes and it's so hard to see your way out of where you've gone and what you've become and what you've done from where you used to be, and that shame spiral will keep you sicker than anything else. And so when I started meeting myself and my relapses with compassion and curiosity versus shame and punishment, my world began, it changed. I began to see that I'm a really good mom, but I'm a better mom when I'm sober. And it doesn't mean that I'm a bad mom. I just make really bad choices when I'm under the influence. And so just continuing to have those conversations with myself, gave me more, more sober time. And I was able to build confidence and build connection around. I it's okay. That I'm a, non-drinker not everybody needs to understand that, but there's too many people dying for me to stay silent in my sobriety. And if I am gonna get judgment, that's not on me, but I wanna be alive. And I wanna show other people that they don't have to fall into a trap, or if they do that, there is a way out. And so that's kind of how recovery is. The new black was, was born.
Speaker 3:That's amazing as I was listening to you, I heard you say a couple of different things that, um, the shame cycle, and as you were talking, it reminded me of how many times I flirted with this idea of, well, if I don't eat for the next two hours, then it'll be okay when I just have a bite of this. And then that one bite would turn into a couple bites, which then would make me want to over exercise to burn it off. And so what I like to say with addiction is addiction is the manifestation of the same disease, but in different ways. Yes. And I, I had learned going through my recovery, like I sat in many AA meetings, OA meetings, CA meetings, ma meetings. And I was always looked at differently because food addiction is a little different, but it's the only actual addiction that if you stop completely, you die, whereas alcohol or drugs, if you stop, you get better and you get sober and you get clean. And so it's just like counterintuitive. And then I also heard you say that drinking was for you and for other people who do it, it it's a temporary fix to a long term problem that problem's still gonna be there when you stop drinking. It's you have to meet yourself where you are in order to get help. So how does, um, recovery is the new black? How do you help others, especially moms with this process of sobriety?
Speaker 4:You know, my, my philosophy is really meeting the mom where she's at. If she's curious, there's gonna be a different pathway. If she is diagnosed with alcohol use disorder, then we're gonna deal with it a certain way. But really where, where does this person want to go? What are their goals, right? Do they wanna moderate? Do they wanna regulate? Are they, are they done and fed up with alcohol, disrupting their life? So really they need the, you need to buy it in, right? So if you're not there yet, it's always such a great idea to start listening to things, watching, being a fly on the wall in Facebook groups, downloading podcasts, finding sober celebrities or Instagram accounts that are talking about recovery, because we have this idea that in recovery for anything, it's never gonna be as fun as fulfilling as satisfying. And when you scroll and you see these people with even short to all the way to long term recovery, living a powerful, beautiful, blessed life, it gives you hope, right? It shuts down the idea that our addiction wants to tell us that we're better off binging or using. Um, and that we're no good. And that's what we have to shine light on because those gremlins, when we shine light facts, research, hope, community, all of that, they, they slowly dim and lose their power. And so the power of community and, and education and awareness is huge. So that's what I do first, but it's all up here in the mindset. If you think you can or think you can't, you're absolutely right. And what you also said was, it's not about for women who are working on lessening or avoiding alcohol altogether abstaining, it is so much about the work of why I'm doing this, because this is just an external solution to an internal problem. So my beliefs, what do I believe to be true about alcohol? Are my beliefs still real? Right? I grew up in a Catholic home where that happened and I was around it. So I believed that all adults did this. All adults acted silly as a result of this. I believed that my, it helped my anxiety, but the more I leaned into my curiosity, the more I was more anxious when I woke up, right. I used to think I slept better, but I didn't sleep better because I never got into a REM sleep. So all of these beliefs, I love for women to challenge them because what they see is that the, when you S strip down the marketing and the glamor, is this adding value to your life, is it gonna cost you more than it's giving you? What's gonna happen? If you don't take a break, what's the worst thing or best possibility that'll happen if you do. So it's coming up with the mind, the mindset of just, where are we going with this? What are some established goals? Take a break because that's the beauty that I've noticed, not only with myself, but the women I've worked with is that if you set a date to test drive sobriety, and you put distance between you and your beverage of choice, and you are unable to keep your own promises to yourself, that's information that's telling you that your relationship with alcohol might not be as healthy as you once thought it was. So there's so many unique ways to have this conversation. Thank goodness in the world that we live in. It's not necessarily this, this line of you're either a normal person who can drink responsibly, or you're considered an alcoholic with alcohol dependence and you need to go to AA and society pretty much writes you off. So there's that beautiful threshold of, we can get curious at any time, I'm a, non-drinker, non-smoker non meat eater, and I'm proud of all of it. You know, this is who we are in this day and age, and we don't need anybody else to shame us more than we shame ourselves for everybody else. Anyway. So with a head full of sobriety, drinking is never the same. So you can scroll through those private Facebook groups and you can have your glass of wine, but you're gaining something when you're in that group, that negative wisdom that might help you layer. And I think that there's so much power in that.
Speaker 3:I, I like how you were saying, um, you're a non-drinker instead of saying I'm sober. I know you do say you're sobriety and that you are sober, but just how you approach it as I'm a non drinker, because that doesn't give it that negative connotation. And I think that when people hear somebody sober or that somebody is playing with their sobriety, like, then they're like, oh, when are they gonna get back on the wagon again? And it's like, why is there always, why is everyone else waiting for someone else to fall? Like, right. And you, again, talk about this idea of shame and we shame ourselves. And that's part of the disease. And one of the coolest things I ever heard when talking about the disease of addiction is disease. When you separate the words it's dis-ease, so it's unease to what you're feeling. So you're trying to figure out or trying to use something to cope with something that makes you feel uneasy. And as a special ed teacher, dealing with behaviors all the time, I also know that there's a function to every behavior. And so there's a function to your drinking. So that's, that's the thing that's really cool is all of the stuff is connected regardless of someone's drug of choice. And there's so many ways, as you said, to be curious about how to play with these ideas of either, um, increasing or decreasing the amount of something that you are putting in yourself and seeing how that is responsive to the rest of your life.
Speaker 4:Yes. And that's like, you know, with a food journal or like an exercise journal, a sobriety or an alcohol free journal take inventory. And it's data it's information every Friday or every other Friday. Oh my gosh, it's payday. I have extra money. Or my ex is taking my kids. There's always breadcrumbs to reverse engineer your behavior. It might be over 70 and it's a hot day. And that Corona tastes wonderful mowing the lawn, right? We have have these, these connections to things. And we don't, it's so normalized that we don't even realize that we're doing it. And until I started like really being in tune with what I was participating in and where I was showing up in my life, every two year old, three year old birthday party for an entire year, I went to alcohol, was a staple along with cupcakes and balloons. It is so normalized that people look at you strangely, if you don't partake, which just says a lot about where we're at as a society. Um, and now the more people that are saying, oh, I'm, you know, I'm on the whole 30 or I'm driving. I don't like the way it feels. I don't wanna deal with a headache tomorrow. The more people that feel confident and comfortable standing up, if we spoke out loud and not even powerful voices, but just said, no, thanks. I don't want one. I think people would be amazed by the non-drinkers that exist. I have a lot of my ladies do this challenge when you go into a restaurant and you're not drinking, of course, you're gonna see everybody who's drinking cuz you want it. And so I challenge them to like go to the dessert menu and get excited about what you could possibly have to treat yourself like a, you know, a Sherbert or just something, or, you know, look at all the non drinkers because there are so many of them that you're disregarding because you're so focused on what you're not going to allow yourself to have, or can't have that that's all you're fixated on. And so it's so important to document and collect information. And when we're shaming ourselves, we're missing the opportunity to really learn and strengthen our recovery from any addiction moving forward, because even the smallest wins of the, you know, I'm standing up for myself, I'm setting a boundary, I poured half a bottle out, right. I took one bite to the ice cream cone and gave it back to my kid. Those are victories. And we are so quick to tally our mistakes that we don't play even and fair with ourselves. So even using the journal for successes is so important to build momentum and confidence so that you wanna continue living a life that you are proud of. And I love when women can see that beauty and, and look at it from a different way. It's like with weight, you know, it's like the scale and your pants size. That's what people go to. And it's like, there's so many other cues internally and externally that we can see as a result from taking care of our body. And if we take care of her, she's gonna take care of us in return, which is pretty cool. Right. You know, I was, I was bad. I was mean to my body for a really, really long time. And she's done some incredible things for me in addition to gifting me, my children, I need to be kind to her.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I, I hear that. I mean, the body's ability to bounce back from certain things, no matter what, you've put it through. It's, it's amazing that all of our organs still work after doing certain things. Like you don't even have to have an addiction in order to hurt your body and the things that it will bounce back from after an addiction is just it's astounding.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Um, okay. So you talk about the, these groups of women and you kind of mentioned it. Um, I know earlier in an email exchange, you talked about this mommy wine culture, and that's what you kind of alluded to at the beginning when you were talking about having like the mugs filled with wine. Um, so how exactly, when you say you work with groups of women, what kinds of things do you do for the, for empowering them,
Speaker 4:Empowering them? Um, geez. I hope just my presence and my, my speaking and motivation empowers them, um, you know, two kind of questions there in regards to what I do with them and how I empower them in the mommy. One culture. I think it's like again, really important for them to empower themselves by what they believe to be true. And then going to target on an assignment and showing me these things, testing these things are, does this really help you do X, Y, and Z? Or is this just what the media or self magazine or Instagram is telling you? Right. So it's like, you have to learn for yourself. It's like our kiddos that are running by the pool at three, we tell'em not to run. You're gonna slip and fall, but they keep doing it. And when they slip and fall, they realize, man, that sucks well, right? So it's like they have to learn for themselves. And so part of my empowerment is to say, I want you to do this next thing. I want you to tell one friend that you're taking a break and to break their own internal stigma and barriers around being confident enough to stand in who you are, regardless of judgment and shame. And you start by your inner circle where it's hopefully a more warmer market to feel more loved and appreciated and validated for that. Because honestly, when you disclose who you are, the people who are close to you and love, you should be on your team regardless, and honor your decision to do whatever it is, as long as it's safe. And so test that, do that. And if you have fear behind it, it's really just holding you back. It's not fear. So let's examine, what's holding you back and they'll call me. And just these epiphanies of, I had three people, message me yesterday about mocktail menus that they're like literally beautiful, delicious drinks that are coming on. These menus that aren't tap water, Shirley temples or root beer or milk it's, it's glorious. It used to just be, you know, plant water and juice boxes, but just the cool ways of opening your mind up to the world that you wanna live in and envisioning yourself as her. What does she drinking when she goes to Hawaii? What does she see? What does she smell? That's what gets them excited about, I think I can do this. And the more you do it, the more you don't wanna stop doing it because it's a beautiful thing. You don't have to wake up and look at your text messages. You don't have to disappoint your partner again. You're, you're normalizing sobriety in a household where your kids are preteens, and they're gonna start looking at their relationship with alcohol and what they wanna respect you say, as I do not, as I say, you know, it's like, those are the serious, honest conversations that we have to start having and normalizing it's a choice. And because we say no, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with that. So, um, you know, I, I meet with them a lot and, and pods, I do a lot of speaking. It's just trying to connect with them on what is going to resonate with them the most in that format. And sometimes it's writing, sometimes it's through, you know, different, it's just different platforms for different people. So, um, as you can tell, I'm just a motivational ball of sunshine
Speaker 3:As you, where do recovery's the new black going?
Speaker 4:I envision it becoming if I had my way and a, and a wand, um, becoming a campaign and a movement for people to be able to be proud of being a non-drinker and doing a documentary, um, on the mommy wine culture, being able to go into establishments and feel that there's options for people. Um, again, and it's not the kids' menu. I have built, I have land that I would love to be able to come up with the funding to build a women's treatment program and bring their kids, cuz that was a huge piece that was missing for me. And that was one of the hardest parts of making the decision was leaving my children. But I knew if I didn't, it was like 30 days, Michelle, 30 days away from your kids. So you can have them for the rest of your life, but believe it or not, again, hard decision when you're in it. And denial's really big as well. So those are a couple of things I would love to go on the road, um, and do motivational speaking and just panel speaking to be able to get the message out to women, um, because a lot of this resonates with this is just a tool. This is just something I use because I don't like how I'm feeling or what a season of life I'm in or experiencing at the moment. And like we talked about at the beginning, you know, this could be food, this could be gambling. This could be online shopping. I truly believe everybody has their vice it's just, some are more socially acceptable than others. And so just continuing to build the awareness, I'm very much a person that is more into purpose over popularity because I have personally experienced this. This is where my heart is. I'm usually in the ground on the community doing needle exchange or working in the jails because that's where my heart is. Um, and so there's so many scopes of places that this could go. I have a couple books, three in total that will be coming out. And you know, my goal when I first started manifesting and dreaming and working really hard for the books was I just want them to be in treatment programs and in jails, I just want them to get into the hands of people who need them, if, if anything else. And I think when you just continue to keep showing up and living your truth and inspiring people through your own personal experience, um, things happen the way that they're supposed to happen, but I know what it's like to not have a voice and not feel safe because I felt like I was all alone. And the more I found out, hundreds of thousands of women are right here, right beside me. And we're just in all different places in our discovery where we're feeling safe enough and comfortable enough and confident enough to start having those conversations out loud. So that's, you know, the movement and just continuing to get the word out is, is really what I want for recovery is the new black
Speaker 3:That's. I mean, all of that is like super heavy and there's so much there, but I, with your passion, I can just see it. That's how my podcast emerged. I, I also have a book. Speaking of books actually, can you, um, give your socials, so the listener knows where to find you?
Speaker 4:Yes, it's recovery is the new black on all of my social media platforms. And I have a private Facebook group in addition called recoveries a new black inside of Facebook. And my website is the same.
Speaker 3:All right. Amazing. And anyone who's listening, you can find me at Hungary. The number two live.com also on instagram@hungarydotthenumbertwo.live. And I wanted to ask you, Michelle, I have first I wanna say thank you so much for sharing your story and your passion and everything. Like I just, I can feel your energy and how this is so important to you. And I want to ask you what keeps you hungry to live?
Speaker 4:Ooh, um, personally or professionally,
Speaker 3:Both
Speaker 4:My story's not done yet. I have more to reveal and more to say to the world. And that's what keeps me going. And my sobriety, like I'm hungry for more of it. I wanna feel more of it. I wanna share more of it. And I missed out on a lot of it, not, you know, waking up to it. So I've been given this chance in this platform and this life and I am not taking it for granted.<laugh> every day, I'm hungry for another day to be able to change another life and to live my truth through it. And hopefully you'll have a lot more in me.
Speaker 3:I, I think you do. I think there's the possibilities and opportunities for you are endless, especially with all these platforms and social media and all of these different things. And I, I'm really excited to now start following you on everything and seeing what you're up to and maybe join some of your movements that you're doing. I love
Speaker 4:That. I would love that sing. I wills too. Yes.
Speaker 3:So at the end of every episode, um, I read a poem about my guest. Hey, Michelle, we need to talk is how a number of conversations had to start from her husband. She was summoned mini interventions on mini a morning. If only she took them as a warning until rock bottom was not so awesome. When she awoke the cycle, broke a hospital bed enough said recovery started then and there at this point, always truth never dare living through a pandemic while fighting an epidemic. Michelle found sobriety along with notoriety, talking to women, especially mothers who are using alcohol as a cover to cope with motherhood, professionalism, and life. While teaching them, there is more than what meets the eye recovery is the new black Michelle coined that a speaker, author and career driven woman, helping women with recovery is her mission.
Speaker 4:Wow. Did you write that?
Speaker 3:I did.
Speaker 4:That is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 3:I will send it to you and thank you all for listening. This is Rachel from hungry to live and I had in she Smith
Speaker 5:In the right place, in the wrong way, down on my left there with dog days had to switch it up, make it okay. So I gave up on Nora race, learn from a pastor ma days. Still got town ever too late. No, I don't care. But they
Speaker 1:Say I came here to stay
Speaker 2:Through the days the most is it wasn't Lez again. He never gave up cuz I, God, God God
Speaker 1:Have
Speaker 2:Through the darkness. Tears, turn the lights off face my.
