Hungry2Live
Hungry2Live
Ep.16 H2L-Jennifer Givens, Woman Warrior
On today’s episode, Rachel speaks with Jennifer Givens. This woman warrior served six years in the Navy. Her petite frame did not hold her back on the ships. A fighter and single mother, Jennifer had many battles to fight on the home front and at sea. With two tweenagers, a full time job, speaking and supporting many charitable causes for women in the armed forces; Jennifer continually fights the good fight.
No, I
Speaker 2:Don't care,
Speaker 1:But they say
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 1:Came here to stay
Speaker 2:Through the days the mercy wasn't easy kid. He never gave up. Cuz I got God, God, the darkness, turn the lights off.
Speaker 3:Hi and welcome to another episode of hungry to live. I'm Rachel. And today I am joined by Jennifer Gibbons. It's not every day that you hear of a woman warrior, but that is exactly what Jennifer is. She is a woman who has served active duty in the Navy for six years. She's here to tell us her story. Hi Jennifer. Hi. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you. So when I came across your profile, I was, I, I excited, like I don't know the words to describe it because it's not every day that you hear of a woman being in the Navy and just wanting to share her story and help so many other women in the armed forces. And so I immediately reached out to you and I, I wanted to know a little bit more and we talked a little bit and now I want you to tell the listener a little bit about your story.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I appreciate that. Um, well people always think I'm more interesting than I think I am. Uh, so that's good to hear. Uh, so I am from originally from Bakersfield, California. Uh, so kind of a smaller city in like the middle of California. I always joke that it's like the armpit of California. It is very hot. Yeah.<laugh> very hot, very, uh, kind of farm agricultural. And um, I had a pretty, pretty basic childhood, uh, great parents. My dad, a firefighter, my mom worked in human resources. Um, they got separated when I was little, but I mean just Bakersfield was such a good place to grow up because it's such a small town feel and all the support and both my families are amazing. So I got really lucky and I, we kind of struggled in high school a little bit of just figuring out like you have the whole world to think about like your whole future to think about. And that was really overwhelming. I had no idea what I wanted to do. Um, I didn't have like the best grades cuz I had a lot of fun in high school. Uh<laugh> so, so I, I just kind of went to junior college cause I thought that's what I had to do. Um, not none of my parents graduated from college, so I didn't really have anybody in my family that had done college. My brother got a scholarship for college, so he was the first one to ever go. Um, but I wasn't a super athlete like him. So I was just kind of stuck of don't know what I wanna do. I have the rest of my life to do something. Um, and I did not love college<laugh> so I figured quickly that that wasn't it. Uh, but I wanted to get out of Bakersfield. So my grandfather was in world II and Korea in the Navy and I grew up on the water. I grew up in the fire department. Um, not like your typical childhood for a very petite little girl. Um, but I was, I loved it. So I remember my grandfather telling me stories about the Navy and I thought, well, it sounded really fun. He definitely left out the parts of war, um, and focused on the camaraderie. And I just thought I've been an athlete my whole life. So what's one more team activity. Um, and I get paid and I can pay for my own college when I decide that I'm ready and I get to travel. So check, check, check. I signed up, my dad said I need to get a job. So I came home and said, I'm leaving for the Navy in a few months. Um, so I shocked my entire family. Nobody thought I would ever do something like that. Um, and I, I never looked back. I guess I, I left, went to the Navy. The job I chose is basically firefighting, um, to kind of put it in a nutshells engineering, but majority of the job is firefighting, which I knew, well, I grew up in the department, so I never thought about gender. I never thought that there was not a single female firefighter around me. Um, I never was taught or nobody really cared that I was a girl in my family. So I would, it, I wasn't aware of it. Uh, ignorance is bliss is what I like to say. So I never thought about it. I went to the Navy did bootcamp. That was super easy. I was very young and athletic. Um, and then I got my first assignment. I went to my school and I looked around and there was a few girls and I was like, okay, like that's pretty normal. It's the military. It's mostly men anyways. Um, and as I kept advancing, I noticed that was less and less and less women. So then I got to my first ship and I looked around and there was one, um, and then myself, so two and she was a lot more senior than I was. So she wasn't really working there anymore. She was senior level, uh, what we call a, a first class petty officer. And so she kind of ignored me and just said, you know, welcome and left. And I barely saw her. And then my first day on the job, my chief took one good look at me, uh, and rightfully so saw a very, very tiny woman. And he just said, no<laugh>. And that was my first day. Uh, fast forward a couple years. We're very, very good friends. I wore him down until he realized I was not a problem<laugh> that I could do the job that I was, I was raised to do this job. Um, and that I, my gender had nothing to do with it. So wore him down, wore all the guys down that I worked with end up walking away from the military after six years with hundreds of new brothers and sisters and some pretty amazing experiences. Um, and then after the Navy, um, while I was in the military, I got married. I had two kids, went on deployment. My son was one, my daughter was not to yet two, uh, went on deployment, uh, came home for a little bit, went on another deployment, got divorced and then got remarried and then got outta the military. So a lot happened in that six years. And then I went to college, I went to a junior college, all paid for by the military. I went and got my bachelor's degree and my master's degree all paid for, uh, did really well figured out that I actually was very good at school. I just needed to apply myself, um, and do what I wanted to do on my terms in my time. And, um, now I will be getting commissioned back in the Navy in a couple months as a reserve officer in the human resource department.
Speaker 3:That's incredible. I, I didn't know all of that. I knew some of it, um, as I was doing research on you, but that's just, wow. I, I love this idea of you carving out this path that you always knew what you were going to do, even though you didn't really know what you wanted to do with your life. You kind of always knew that you wanted to do something similar to your grandfather and your father. Obviously they had a really big impact on you. You also seemed to really take in who you are and know, even though someone looks a certain way, that doesn't mean that's how they're gonna perform. And I think it's so important to hit that point home because especially being a woman it's so hard already just by looks alone for somebody to be like, no, you can't do that. But then to prove all these other men wrong and then have like, you get called on to do what you are there to do. And they're like, wow. And they just take you in. I wanted to ask you, as you kept moving forward through, um, you went from boot camp to all the other levels. Mm-hmm<affirmative> why did more and more women drop out?
Speaker 4:So I actually more and more women started it. It, um, there was a moment where there wasn't a lot of women. And then towards the end of my career, there was actually a, a ton of women. So it, it dropped out at a certain timeframe and I'm not sure if it was the ships I chose to be on are destroyers. They're, they're very small, not a lot of people. And so if you already don't have a lot of people in that particular job in the Navy as a whole, it's going to reflect when you're in a smaller command. Uh, but the last, uh, two and a half years, uh, there was a, quite a few women actually that came through and came up the ranks. It's just, it wasn't yet. So when I first started, it was still, we're still trying to get more females. And then over time it takes, um, for you to go through advancement process. There's certain timeframes. You have to wait, then you have to take a test and you know, you have to be, you have to be qualified for it. They don't just give it to you. So I think sticking it out is a, is a thing for everybody, not just women, men and women. Um, it's not an easy job for anybody. And the it's very physical. You carry really heavy equipment and there's, there's quite frankly better jobs in the military that aren't as physically taxing that a lot of people, when they join, they join a job. They don't really know about it. And then later in their career, they can actually switch to different jobs if they wanted to. So that happens quite frequently. Um, I loved it because that's what I knew and I thought it was fun. It was challenging. Um, so I stuck it out as long as I could. And I like, I'm happy now when I talk to other women that are in that position or that have, have stuck it out even longer than I did, um, they're coming through the ranks. So there's a lot of women now that are in every rank, in every rate, in every position that it's exciting to me to see that that may not have been the case when I started, but it's, it's progressing more and more. So now it's not really an issue of, you know, my husband and I talked about this all time, cuz he's in the Navy. Uh, he asked me one time and you know why they always talk about the first woman? I was like, well, we're gonna keep talking about, so there isn't anymore first. So<laugh>, you know, there's, there's still going to be some, there's still those jobs that women haven't filled yet. I'm happy to say that the positions and jobs I was in it's women have done it all already. It just took time.
Speaker 3:So as a woman in the Navy, besides the physically taxing jobs that you can have, what other issues have women in general had to overcome or are still fighting for, for, to be seen as equals.
Speaker 4:So I think having a family's different for men and women, having a family for a man means your wife has a child. They care for the child. It's, it's not physically taxing on their body or, or anything like that. Not to say that it's not equal partnership in raising a child, but the, the physical aspect of, of having a child while you're in the military, being pregnant with a child, uh, both my, my children were complications. So you have to come back from that. And coming back from that, you're removed from your ship, which for me was heartbreaking because the ship that I was, uh, taken off of, I commissioned it. So I helped, uh, build part of it in a sense. Uh, so it became very much my, my first child, I would say. And so when you get pregnant, you have a family, you you're move removed from one family to start a new one. And then when you have the child, you get about a year with your child, then you go back and I think it's changed since I was in, um, I think it's extended now, but then you go back from deployment. So you're not only physically recovering from having a child getting fit. You're you do miss out on some opportunities maybe to, you can still make rank, but you're not doing your job anymore, unless you have a, a certain job that can be done ashore. So I think that that's a setback in itself because you do miss those that year, at least of work that you could be doing on a ship, which prevents you from maybe getting some qualifications and that does set you back, but not in the sense that, you know, I had my kids and would never regret it, but I did. I missed out a year on training. I missed out a year on doing my job and learning more about it and maybe taking the next step in my career. So I think that's hard. Um, and it, that's not a military specific thing that's in any workforce thing, any time you decide to have a child, um, you miss out on something, it's a sacrifice in, in many, many ways. Um, but when you, when you come back into the military, after having a child and you go back to sea duty, I left when my son was one. So two days after his first birthday and, um, that's hard like having a baby and then leaving it with somebody. Uh, in my case it was my mother. And then going back on deployment, that's hard mentally for, uh, a female. I know it's hard for men too. And my husband's about to leave on deployment and I know it's hard on him, but it's just, it hits a little different as a mom. So that's difficult. I don't know. I don't really know how that can change or get better in the military. They're doing a good job on giving mothers more times with their children. So that's improved. And then I think just representation for women. Uh, like I said, in all ranks and all rates at all levels, from the highest to the lowest, um, I'm a, a firm believer. If you can see it, you can be it. So diversity, not just on a, a, a gender, but on a, a generational, uh, diversity and inclusion, all of it. Um, I think we still have some work to do in that aspect. Earlier, you talked about how
Speaker 3:You were actually a single mom, when you, after you had your son, because you got divorced, what was it like you already had, you, you already had to leave your son with your mother, but also knowing that you were a single mother in that same instance, how did you cope with that when you were on the ship?
Speaker 4:So I'm extremely fortunate that my mom quit her job, left her home and moved in with me full time to care for both. I had two children at the time I had a, my kids are 11 and a half months apart. So essentially two babies. Um, that is not the case for majority of single service members. So I'm extremely fortunate that I was able to have her come and take care of the kids full time. So I didn't have to worry about it. Um, it's hard. It makes it difficult because you are the sole provider, but the military pays you pretty well. So I was able to financially take care of my mom and the kids on my own. So that was very fortunate. But, um, yeah, that's not the case for a lot of people. I just got very lucky that I have a very supportive family mentally wise,<laugh> mentally. Um, I like to say I'm, I'm cut a little different than most. I can get really focused on the mission and my people. And at that time I was probably what I, you would call in feeling worlds like middle management. So I couldn't really let myself be wrapped up in missing my kids because I had sailors to take care of and I had a job to do, and we had missions to do so you get really mission focused. You can be sad and have all the emotions, but that's a, a private time thing. That's not a work time thing.
Speaker 3:There's definitely a, a work life balance in the sense where you can compartmentalize work and your home life. That's interesting, cuz I've, I've actually had, my grandfather was in the Navy as well, but I, he passed when I was 10, so I was never really able to talk to him about his experiences. Um, and having gone to a school that had ROTC and the Navy there. Um, I had a lot of friends who went through the program, but they ended up getting desk jobs after. So I wasn't, I never really had those conversations with them either. So thank you for sharing that. That's really interesting to hear that perspective. Um, what kinds of things are you doing now to advocate for what you were looking you were talking about? Like equal rights or diversity? What kinds of, um, programs are you working with right now?
Speaker 4:So my civilian job, I work for Mount SOAD national veterans Memorial and they're located in San Diego, California. And, uh, what we do is we have plaques for veterans, both living and deceased. And when I started working there, I kind of noticed that we didn't have a whole lot of, uh, female, uh, service members represented. We didn't have, um, of diverse group of people on our walls. So I kind of made that my main mission is, uh, making sure that that people know that it's available to everybody. And by doing that is just doing either events or marketing properly or just meeting different groups where they're at and say, you know, this is for you, this isn't for a select group of people. This is for everybody. So we've, we've done a good job. Um, so far we had a women's event for, um, women's history month. It was a first ever event that we held there and we had a hundred service women from dating back to Korea until present day. So that was exciting meeting women. That actually are the reason that women are allowed to serve permanently. So these were women that were waves back in the day that fought tooth and nail to get women, to even be a permanent part of the military and then continued to fight for rights for women to stay in after they had families, which used to not be able to do, um, be able to fit in different ranks and rates, which you weren't able to do to be a high ranking, which they weren't able to do back then. So some of these women are pioneers of their time. So we are able to acknowledge them and acknowledge women who are serving now that are continuing the work. Um, another thing that I do is I work for, or I'm an ambassador for the foundation for women warriors. It's a hundred year organization. Uh, origin was originally started for war widows and now, uh, my friend Jody greener, she's a phenomenal woman, a Marine veteran, just she's one of the coolest people. I know she's the, uh, executive director and she has built this organization to serve women veterans where they are with what they need to not only transition outta the military, but take care of their families to get education and to find their next, um, career path after the military. So I work with them a lot and it's an amazing organization. It's the first I ever heard and it helped me kind of stay connected with women veterans. It's a foundation for women warriors.
Speaker 3:I also saw that you do, um, operation dress code. Can you talk about that? A little
Speaker 4:Bit. Operation dress code is started by another women organization and they collect, uh, gently used or new business clothes. So women veterans can come in and find clothes for job interviews. So what a lot of people don't realize is when you're in the military, you just wake up, you put the same thing on every day, put your hair in a bun. Most of us don't wear makeup and you don't really wear jewelry. So when you get out, there is a, there can be anxiety of what do I wear. So I, I remember when I first got out, I had clothes from 2005.<laugh> like in my closet and I was just like, oh, that's not what we're wearing anymore because I seldomly wore civilian clothes. I wore workout clothes when I was in uniform, but I didn't get dressed up and go anywhere. I didn't have anywhere to go. So when women get out, it's nice that they can have professional wear to where to they can have makeup, hair service, uh, business clothes that they can get. There's coaches there there's, uh, resume writing resources. A lot of'em will get their headshots. It's a phenomenal organization. If anybody can donate clothing or services or money or their times, it it's the most exciting thing to be part of because you just get to watch these women who have just done so many great things that now they're doing something else really exciting. They're they're on the preface of like a new career, a new adventure for them. So to be part of it in any way is really exciting.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. Uh, since you have two now, like tween age kids and both you and your husband are in the Navy, have either of your children expressed that they would like to follow your footsteps?
Speaker 4:Absolutely not.
Speaker 3:<laugh> all right. Well, at least.
Speaker 4:So I just got fitted for my, um, officer uniform today and I, I brought home some of my stuff and I'm like, oh, look at, look at what mom got, like my new boots and my new uniform, because it's totally different from what I wore when I was enlisted. I mean, completely different. So I told my daughter, I was like here, try on my cover, put it on her. And she was like, I hate this. I'm never doing this<laugh> So I at the, at the current, uh, moment, no, uh, zero interest, zero cares. I mean, they, they, they could surprise me, but at the moment my daughter wants to be a professional soccer player and my son wants to make video games for a living. So,
Speaker 3:So although your daughter doesn't wanna join the military, at least at this time, what kind of advice or recommendations would you give to women who want to join the military?
Speaker 4:Do homework. So LinkedIn was not around when I joined the military nor was Facebook. Nora's Instagram. I think we had my, we had MySpace. I think that was it. Maybe Facebook. I don't, I don't even think Facebook goes around yet. Um, there are so many resources available. Now, the Navy has this amazing thing. That's, uh, faces of the fleet that you can go on and you can see different stories of different people. Um, but before you go to a recruiter, I always ask people to reach out and find somebody who's in it because they're not going to give you the sales pitch. Now recruiters are phenomenal. Um, I will eventually be working with them or be one myself. Um, but they do have a job to get you in the military. So do your research find out what branch you feel is most likely home, cuz that is going to be your home. That that will be your new family for a very long time. So figure out what branch you wanna get into by first, figuring out what job you wanna do, make sure that it aligns with something that you like. I chose that the job that I chose because I knew it, it was familiar to me not to say that I was the best at it or really qualified or equipped for it, but it was familiar. So sometimes that's somewhere to start, but definitely before you walk into a recruiter's office, you have got to know what branch you wanna be, part of why and what you want to do, make sure it's, it's somewhat focused in something you're passionate about, or it could be the most miserable for your, of your life.
Speaker 3:All right. Thank you. So my show is called hungry to live. As you know, this is the time when I ask my guest, what keeps you hungry to live?
Speaker 4:I always view life as an adventure. I, I try to seldomly say no to new experiences and adventures. So I think that's just not limiting myself to what's coming and just kind of being open to opportunity. I love it. I love being useful. I love learning a lot and I love teaching. So I like to learn it so I can pass it on to somebody else. I think that that's really exciting to me to know that I got knowledge from somebody else. I built upon it and then I pass it on. So the person after me hopefully is a lot smarter and better prepared than I was.
Speaker 3:That's nice. I mean, there's so many things about that that is layered, but it's also very humbling because I feel like while you are sitting here talking and I'm listening, I think you are very humble considering the job that you held in the Navy, that you are a woman in the Navy, you did this as a single mother. Like there's so many different things that I'm hear. What I'm hearing you not say is so important. And the, the information and recommendations you are giving and the advice you're also giving. It's just, it's very humbling. So thank you.
Speaker 4:Oh, I appreciate that. I, I always tell people, like I am never the best I shouldn't. I should never be your first person because there's definitely somebody smarter than me in this room that you could find, but I'll give you what I know. And hopefully that hopefully it's enough. And sometimes, sometimes it's not and you just never be the smartest person in the room. Best advice I've ever been given.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you sharing your story. You're the first woman warrior. I, I think that I've talked to, so it took me this long and here I am talking to you and this is great.<laugh> if any other woman warrior or warrior in general or someone who wants to find out more about the military, where can they find you?
Speaker 4:Um, they can email me probably the, the best way. LinkedIn's always great. You can find me on LinkedIn. Um, I'm pretty, very responsive on there. Um, my email is, uh, my first name Jennifer, 2012, givens. My last name@gmail.com. Um, I don't mind helping at all, but Facebook, Instagram, I don't even know what my Instagram handle is.<laugh> let me find it real quick.
Speaker 3:No worries. And while she's finding that you can find me@hungdotthenumbertwo.live on Instagram or hungry, the number two live.com and here's Jennifer again.
Speaker 4:So my Instagram is, uh, Jennifer underscore our underscore givens, um, and Instagram, LinkedIn email. I'm pretty available.
Speaker 3:Great. And I'll put all of your handles and information up, um, on the show notes as well. So people can find you. Um, at the end of every episode, I say a poem about my guests. So here's a poem for you. A woman of valor, carrying herself in a humble manner, serving in the Navy for six years, nothing less than cavalier. Following footsteps of men in her family as a woman doing it gallantly while she was in service. Also a single mother, Jennifer fought like no other many missions, not just at sea. She continues to advocate for women in the military, working with operation dress code, to find other female veterans work after deployment. She organizes clothing drives and informationals about employment. An ambassador for woman warriors, a mother of two tweens and a wife for so many that is a complete life for Jennifer. She will not stop there. She also builds cases for immigrants seeking asylum, visas and citizenship. This woman sees what's right and fights for what's fair. Thank you Jennifer, for being on my show.
Speaker 4:Thank you. That was beautiful. Huh? Thank you. You made me sound feel awesome.
Speaker 3:You are. Thank you for listening to hungry, to live
Speaker 5:In the right place in the wrong way, down on my luck there with dog days, how to switch it up, make it okay. So I gave up on the right race, learned from a pastor. My days still got town ever
Speaker 1:Too late. No, I don't care. But they say I came here to stay
Speaker 2:Through the days. The most, it wasn't easy came here, never came up cuz I never gave up The darkness. The lights
Speaker 1:I got, I got.
